“The main issue is not the severity of the punishment, but its inevitability.” How should we fight against pedophilia?

“The main issue is not the severity of the punishment, but its inevitability.” How to fight pedophilia?

The sexual abuse of a 5-year-old girl in a state kindergarten in the Uchkurgan district of Namangan has once again shown that there are many problems in the system responsible for child safety in Uzbekistan.

Despite the fact that the incident occurred on September 12, the actions of the officials regarding the situation were significantly delayed. After the reports were published on September 22, the suspect was detained and a criminal case was initiated against him. Four days later, on September 26, official reactions began to be expressed.

Following the statement by Saida Mirziyoyeva, the head of the Presidential Administration, a draft law on strengthening punishment for sexual crimes against children under 14 was developed with a 6-month delay and passed the approval and endorsement of the Oliy Majlis.

Looking at the chronology, it becomes clear that there are enough problems in the system. So, what exactly do they consist of? Will strengthening the punishment solve the problem? How can sexual abuse against children be prevented? How should one work with an abused child and their family?

Gazeta.uz spoke with lawyer Kamola Aliyeva and family psychologists Oydin Khushmurodova and Rozaliya Gabdulhakova to find answers to these questions.

— Assalomu alaykum, thank you for agreeing to the interview. Kamola opa, first let's talk about the delays. How should the system have worked in such a situation?

— Kamola Aliyeva:

If we look at the sequence, if the application was received on September 12, at that very time, the internal affairs and prosecutor's offices, together with the National Agency for Social Protection, should have started providing services to the family, in particular, to the victimized little girl. This should be carried out in parallel with the investigative actions. There is no obligation to report to these bodies in the media.

I also saw the official reactions after the reports were published in the media. Frankly speaking, there are many such cases being investigated by the internal affairs and prosecutor's offices. The Social Protection Agency also knows, but from the point of view of not harming the child's rights, due to some objective and subjective reasons, they are not disclosed.

In this situation, there are those who reacted late and only after it caused a resonance. For example, on the official page of the National Agency for Social Protection, it was reported that services have been provided to the child and her family since September 12. We saw the next one on the official channel of the Children's Ombudsman. After that, on September 22, it was also said that an official submission was made to the Ministry of Preschool and School Education.

The remaining organizations: the Prosecutor General's Office, the Family and Women's Committee, and many other state bodies were quite late in this regard. One thing to pay attention to is that even if the situation occurred on September 12, there is no obligation for the internal affairs bodies or the prosecutor's office to react on that very day. But once it appears in the media, an explanation must be given immediately. Unfortunately, very few were able to do this.

I would like to suggest one thing to the press secretaries of organizations as a recommendation, that is, they need to be very alert in such situations. The population has the right to receive reliable information, and this information must be provided by official bodies. Bloggers, journalists, and public activists can convey the information they have obtained, but the official one must be transmitted. Because in such a case, it is natural that questions will increase. Doubts and suspicions will also arise. Unfortunately, unpleasant situations happening to children are occurring one after another, and these are only the ones known to us.

I emphasize once again, publishing such events in the media has an impact on the case, it helps it move forward. But all measures are being taken post-factum — after it has occurred. We are fighting the consequences. We need to fight proactively — by preventing it. It seems to me that they are acting with the aim of extinguishing the anger of the population after the bad deed has already happened. This is wrong.

— Understood. Oydin opa, you also work at Nemolchi.uz. We know that this site works more with issues of women who have suffered from violence. How often do you receive appeals regarding sexual violence against children?

— Oydin Khushmurodova:

For example, just yesterday an appeal came in, a girl is supposed to have her wedding in 15 days, but she was raped by her cousin until she was 8-9 years old. After 9 years of age, it did not happen. The girl is appealing, saying, "I cannot tell anyone. I don't know what to do. I am ready to kill myself."

They reach out in similar alarming situations. The saying "If your hand is short, keep it in your sleeve" is rightly said. There are very few who have the courage to report such situations. Why? Our society is stereotyped, its fear is strong, it believes that not everything can be said. I see all of this as a consequence of ignorance.

Our mothers do not know how to protect themselves, they do not know their rights. Since the mothers do not have it, their children are in the same state. Appeals specifically regarding sexual violence come in about twice a week. We try to help immediately, but in the case mentioned above, unfortunately, we could not do anything.

— Kamola Aliyeva:

Most of the violence is committed by the father's side of the family: there are terrible stories committed by a brother, a father. An appeal came in, a 14-year-old girl was raped by her own brother when she was 8-9 years old. Her brother is 1 year older than her. She told her mother, but her mother beat her and accused her of lying. There was no such thing as giving any help to the girl or listening to her. Time has passed, now it is impossible to prove it. However, the girl no longer wants to live in that family. Because no one is listening to her.

Studies have been conducted all over the world, violence is not committed by a stranger. It can be either their close relatives or family members. Of course, it is not like that for everyone. But in many cases, as mentioned above: it is a brother, their own father, grandfather, or a familiar person. In the case in Namangan, too, this deed was committed by a person who worked as a warehouse manager in the kindergarten and was at the same time a neighbor. That is, they knew each other.

Therefore, there is no need to look far. Being alert is enough. Because in the act committed against a child, gaining their trust is important. How are we taught: "do what an adult says, they know, they are smart," they say.

— Rozaliya Gabdulhakova:

But this is not something unique only to our culture or society. For example, according to the World Health Organization, one in five women and one in thirteen boys worldwide have experienced sexual abuse.

Of course, if it were possible to disclose the statistics, this number might be higher due to the peculiarities of our culture. Sexual abuse does not necessarily have to be the act itself, it can also be in another form. That is, all situations that psychologically harm a child are considered sexual abuse.

— Rozaliya opa, I wanted to ask about this as well. In the Namangan case, if the mother had not been alert, the child might not have even realized that she was subjected to violence. Why do children not realize this? Is this normal? Can you talk about this too?

— Rozaliya Gabdulhakova:

As I just said, harming a child does not necessarily have to be in a physical form; touching some of their parts, or making them touch some body parts of that person, or forcing them to watch videos related to this, that is, doing things against the child's will is also considered violence. Usually, children do not react normally to such situations. Especially well-raised children get scared even when they see a person without clothes.

Because a new thing is always scary. If parents observe carefully, of course, they can notice the symptoms. Since adaptability in children is very strong, they start to accept these as normal. If the same thing continues, little by little, it can become completely normalized. This is like putting a frog not in hot water, but in warm water, turning on the heat, and cooking it slowly. Similarly, because children do not have a sufficiently developed consciousness to distinguish between right and wrong, they learn the norm by observing the surroundings.

— Understood. Kamola opa, currently the suspect is detained, a criminal case has been initiated, and the investigation is ongoing. What do you think should be paid more attention to in this process itself?

— Kamola Aliyeva:

First of all, the evidence will have to be studied. If I explain this process in detail and depth, we might not have enough time. But in general, the investigation has its own processes, deadlines are set, and especially in this case, it is under the control of the Prosecutor General's Office. It was said that the investigation is being conducted by the Namangan Region Prosecutor's Office. First, the videos where this event was recorded are found, and witnesses are questioned.

It happens not once, but several times. Once the information is clarified, they move to the next stage. According to the Criminal Procedure Code, a suspect can be held for up to 7 months at most. This also has the potential to change depending on the difficulty of the case.

In this process, if they are going to question the child themselves, this also has its own procedure. The mother obtained the information from the 5-year-old child in her own environment in the form of a game.

In the legal procedure, it should actually be like this, that is, in order not to cause additional trauma to a child who has suffered from sexual abuse, even the questions must be asked according to the rules. But, unfortunately, I cannot say that this practice works well in Uzbekistan.

For example, when questioning a 5-year-old child, first of all, their mother or a special pedagogue or psychologist must be next to them. Secondly, it is not allowed to question them for a long time, that is, at most 30 minutes, one hour during the day, not more. And to avoid disturbing the child again, the questioning process must be video recorded. There is such a rule too.

But when it goes to court, there is also a procedure for repeatedly questioning the child during the trial, this is not prohibited by anything. Unfortunately, this practice is still applied. In all the cases I have observed, it was like this.

For example, a stepfather committed indecent, depraved acts against a little girl; when the case started, the girl was 7 years old, and by the time the case ended, she turned 8. Her mother is calling, crying out about her daughter being questioned continuously. Just the other day, the Oliy Majlis also conceptually adopted a draft law reflecting this procedure. But this was already a procedure established in the legislation anyway. It's just that its practical implementation was not good.

The suspect is currently accused under 2 articles of the Criminal Code: Article 118, Part 4 (Rape of a person under fourteen years of age) and Article 112 (Threat to kill or use violence). But even if both are combined, that person can be sentenced to deprivation of liberty for up to 20 years at most. No more will be given.

Even if the amendments introduced by the Oliy Majlis pass the president's signature and are introduced into the current legislation, the law does not have retroactive force. That is, if the suspect's guilt is confirmed in this very case, they will give 20 years at most. The introduction of life imprisonment or long-term imprisonment after the time the crime was committed will not affect it. He will be punished under the legislation that was in force when the crime was committed.

You can watch the full version of the interview in the video above.